I am not stating this to make people mad. I am a huge Carpenter's fan. There also nothing wrong with being gay. I am however convinced that both Richard and Karen were gay. Richard "Took after his mother" loved the piano and was "very close too her".
Karen was known as being a "TOMBOY". She was also killer on the drums. Her mom forced her to play instruments that were more "suitable for a lady". Karen also had a negative body image which of course caused her to die from anorexia.
I think Richard knew he was gay. I think Karen didn't know she was gay. Both of them suffered from some sort of addiction.
Now I come from a family were gay siblings are common. My Aunt her Two Sons are gay. My Mother has two gay children. Another Aunt has bi-sexual children.
83 comments:
I completely agree with you; am also a carpenters fan and always knew that Karen was a lesbian; no doubt about it in my mind; she was forced to be something she was not; thats what really killed her, the anorexia was a symptom of a larger problem.
KC and RC were not gay and weren't close to being either. Karen was a tomboy when she was a teenager, it is normal for some straight girls to be. She never carried that into her adult years. Richard has a beautiful wife and five wonderful children. Just because you are close to your mother doesn't mean that you are a homosexual! What does loving the piano have to do with anything? But to answer your question, they were certainly not gay. I can assure you of that.
I agree about Karen although never really thought about Richard but he did marry his 1st cousin right after his sister died, therefore telling the world his sister did not improve.
Also heard a rumor about Karen and Olivia Newton John, etc.
I think Karen was. She also seem not to have control of anything in her life. Her brother picked all the songs. SHe sang them the way he wanted them too.
When she recorded her solo alblum Richard hated it. I think he hated the alblum because he had no say on any of the recordings.
13 years after Karens's death the record was released. Had it been released while she was still alive I am sure the record would of been a hit. "Where do I go from Here" is a very moving.
You are absolutely crazy. Of course they are not gay. How narrow minded of you. Look beyond your own little lives and see the Carpenters for what they were and you will find the reason behind their troubles. I am a doctor with alot of experience in eating disorders, addiction as well as many other areas, so please take my advice. Karen would be turning in her grave to hear your comments.
Many celebs used to date or marry to cover up their sexual orientation because it was thought it would hurt their careers if people knew. Homosexuality is genetic and it is common for multiple siblings in one family to be gay. I personally know of many examples, including members of my own family.
I do not have any direct knowledge but would not at all be surprised to learn that either or both were predisposed to same sex orientation. There are many indications that would align. It is surprising how many men who know they have gay feelings marry, often not even telling the wife, though some are very open. This is very sad to me but I think will be less common as society becomes more accepting of same sex relationships. Gay or not, both Carpenter siblings were very talented. Karen's death was tragic at such a young age and under such sad circumstances though it did lead to much more public knowledge of eating disorders.
Wonderful post, Kathleen.
And I agree totally with both the original post, and with the subsequent comments agreeing with the sentiment.
I also truly believe that both Richard AND Karen were gay. I am a massive Carpenters fan, and there are many, many reasons for me to believe this. I actually spend a lot of time mulling over the enigma of what exactly made Karen so deeply unhappy, and I really do believe that deep down she was struggling with same-sex attraction.
I don't know if she 'knew' that she was gay/bi, or if she just couldn't quite figure it out.
Maybe she wasn’t gay at all, but her extreme difficulty in maintaining and connecting deeply and happily for a significant period of time in a relationship with a guy really seems to hint that she may have been gay or bi.
I'm sorry, and quite frankly quite sad, that some other Carpenters fans seem to find the suggestion that either or both of the sibs were gay offensive.
Surprise, surprise, the Carpenters were real people and far from perfect, and there is probably a LOT that we don't know about them. If you are a true fan you will accept this and not get riled by people having open and mature discusiions about them.
Again, I'm pleased to see that other fans also feel what I feel about the possible homosexuality... it seems to be quite a plausible theory to the unhappiness and struggles of both sibs.
Richard was no way straight! He had a girlfriend back in the day- well, I use the word loosely. If I recall, she cut him down at every opportunity, sneered at his achievements, made him wait until she had been in bed for an hour before letting him join her, only allowed him to eat her leftovers for his dinner (usually nothing, she had to work to craft her impressive potbelly) and she beat him in the face with her vodka bottle after one too many, ripping out hysterical handfuls of his hunky blonde hair.
I think from this experience you can firmly state that Richard loved women.
It certainly would explain a lot of things. In the cult film, “Superstar” (the biopic made about the Carpenters with Barbie and Ken dolls), Karen threatens to out Richard as gay if he continues to pressure her about her weight. Needless to say, Richard threatened to sue for more than unauthorized music use! I think that anorexia, like a lot of others have said, was an extreme response to so many stressors in Karen’s life. 1.) A demanding brother who strove for perfection of everyone he worked with and had what appears to be sole creative control of their career, 2.) A non-emotional mother who did not physically or verbally demonstrate love to her child, 3.) A non-stop work career that put them on the road 2/3rds of the year and in the recording studio the rest of the time. Also, since their careers started when they were so young, she really didn’t have the time to develop socially, the way a normal teenager or young person in their 20’s would have... Living with their parents until late in their 20’s (likely more due to parental pressure/guilt than anything) I am sure didn’t help either. I also heard that when they did move out initially, they (Richard and Karen) moved in together for awhile (likely to make the parent’s feel better about them leaving the nest in the 1st place).
If Karen was a lesbian, I don’t think that she maybe knew it yet, or if she did, wasn‘t ready to address it. I volunteer and run a discussion group for lesbians and many women don’t come out until later in life... Late 30’s or 40’s and oftentimes, after a failed marriage(s) and even children. It is too, very common, more than people realize, that siblings in families can be gay. Other than Karen’s ex-husband Tom was supposedly a jerk and the fact that she was in the middle of a very consuming, devastating disorder, who knows what other factors made the marriage break down. From a lot of the documentaries on YouTube, people interviewed about the marriage dance around the fact they all thought the “whirlwind romance” was strange. The British documentaries talked more about the rumors that Karen and Richard themselves were enmeshed, which never crossed my mind and is a far more disgusting thought than either of them being gay (obviously, since I myself, am). Personally, their image that was certainly a part of them and a creation/positioning of the record company and the media probably stunted their romantic possibilities as well. If they, or either one of them were gay, making the choice to be who they are and be true to themselves to live an authentic life for that time would have gone against their “Goody four shoes” image. It would not have been good for them (or practically anyone at that time) to come out as gay, but especially if you were milk and cookies-middle class American representatives. Maybe Liberace isn’t a good comparison, but for as “flaming” as he was, he never once came out and admitted he was gay even as he died of complications of HIV/AIDS (unlike Rock Hudson) due to his fan base, as he got older, of little old ladies.
As I believe someone said, if Richard does indeed have Karen’s diary, that might clear things up. If anyone ever gets desperate to make a couple bucks, or if Richard decides he’s got nothing to lose, the truth may come out. One thing we do know, is that the anorexia was a “loud shout” that there were likely a multitude of things happening for Karen and no one was listening...if she was nothing but skin and bones, people HAD to pay attention to her, had to show her that they cared if only via their concern for her low weight.
I grew up on The Carpenters beautiful music and read all the speculation about their relationship way back in the 70s - can't believe people even care about what their sexual orientation may have been. Someday we may get past having to "know" and just accept people the way they are. I absolutely love their music and lets let poor Karen rest in Peace.... thanks!
There are plenty of gay brothers and sisters. Y have a gay sister. My AUnt has 2 gay childern! Ifo Karen and Richard were both gay it would not be a rare event. I think very religous people have a hard time thinking that one or both of the carpenters could be gay because the church teaches people to hate gays and lesbians.
I get more incestuous vibes than gay ones.
Who Cares? Whatever got them through the night!
They brought more Peaceful Feelings, Joy, and Incredible Music to the masses than We will see in our lifetime.
To the best of my knowledge, no ex-partners or friends of Richard and Karen have ever suggested that either of them were gay or bi-sexual.
I think Richard is definitely heterosexual and happily married. If this was not so, his wife would probably have left him by now! He had previous girlfriends, and has been married since 1984. Five children just add further to his status.
Karen may well have preferred to remain singing behind the drums. Instead, she was literally on-display for all the fans and critics. Initially at least, this was probably quite an ordeal for a fairly shy, sensitive and self-conscious young person. Critics' comments about Karen being supposedly 'chubby' can't have helped; especially as she was obviously a very figure-conscious young woman. The weight issue was, and is, as much a reflection of society's expectations as anything else. Karen's marriage sounded as much about her fulfilling a long-held domestic dream as being simply dazzled by someone with whom she was not really compatible. I do not think it was a 'marriage of convenience' of any sort.
Why are some people so fixated with the Carpenters' sexuality? It is surely of no real relevance.. except maybe to people who are unsure of their own!
Interesting and provocative questions here. I see no indications that Richard was gay - my understanding that he had a number of long-standing relationships with women .. before marrying his cousin which was quite odd of course!! However with Karen, I see aspects that support the suggestion that she was gay. Here history was of short-lived relationships with males, including an incredibly short marriage. I'm happy to consider that a possibility because I see it as no insult to a person to be homosexual - it is all part of the diversity of life. However if she WAS gay, I think it tragic that she was trying to play out a heterosexual role so unsuccessfully and I agree that if she was it undoubtedly contributed to her untimely illness and death.
First off, I'm a gay woman. I want to add to this conversation because I'm having a lot of feelings come up. This evening I stumbled onto some CARPENTERS videos on YouTube. Oh those luscious songs from my teens! I was actually in tears remembering her death. So I studied further into her life. It wasn't long before it was obvious to me: that poor girl was GAY, but tortured by how the world was back then, not so long ago. It broke my heart. Please - it is OK to be gay AND it is OK to speculate if someone is/was. It's not an insult. It's natural and thankfully humanity is waking up to this fact. Back to Karen: Talent? She could sing AND drum at the same time! And to watch her banging away on wild drum solos with a face full of funny smiles and playful happiness as she just cut loose. How could you not love her? That was who she was, and that was what got snuffed because she couldn't be herself AND LOVE SOMEONE. And to see pictures of her with "TOMBOY CLOTHES AND HAIR"... my heart nearly broke. I could see myself in her. She was a natural gay girl like I was. If only she had been allowed to be herself. Her sweet heart never shared a healthy love. Can't help but think, if she could have survived and healed from the Anorexia and maybe found a Love Mate... Wow, she'd be 61 today, whacking away on her drums, smiling with shaggy silver hair. I miss who she could have been. Guess that's what I needed to say, just to get it out. I'm glad this site was here so I could just share a sad feeling in the middle of the night. Another gay death. Another good heart broken.
I doubt Karen and Richard were gay. Obviously Karen was straight and was tomboyish during her childhood years which is normal. Richard was not effeminate either. His father encouraged him to play the piano.
Agnes was very strict and overprotective. You can conclude by her being that way that Richard would turn out to be gay but he's not. The parents were too overprotective throughout their adulthood years.Agnes was jealous of their success. She did everything to make sure they had hardly romance in their lives.
Karen and Richard weren't homophobic either. They had gay band members and fans. They even performed at a gay club at one point during the early 1970's. So they weren't gay but they were open minded.
Later on in life, I had read Agnes apologized for her treatment of her children before she passed away in 1996. She was sorry she didn't allow her children ample space to be themselves and to grow up having relationships.
Also what drove Karen to anorexia was she was always told she was fat by family and friends and that got her into a pattern of thinking she was heavy and kept on dieting until her death on February 4 1983.
Hi, I'm the Lesbian who commented earlier. Sometimes gay people can sense the signs of gayness in others. "Gaydar" (for Gay Radar) is a fun word and anyone can notice some of the traits that can be common for some of us gay-folk. Nothing to hide or be ashamed of, it's a human thing. And anyone can "get a feeling" about someone in this regard. If we've lived it ourselves, we can often sense if that's what's going on in someone else. Historical research is showing that Hitler and Nixon were probably gay... It's not like we want them on "our team", but to understand that suppression of sexuality was part of their problem makes a big difference in interpreting the human experience. Taking it a step further, if we bring equality and compassion into the picture, we can see how society could possibly foster healthier humans who don't "go off" because their love-nature got squashed. Or in the case of Karen Carpenter, that it's not a miserable downward slide of slow suicide. If I'm wrong about THE CARPENTERS - great, whatever. But to compassionately view historical figures through the modern eye of knowing what gay is, then maybe we can have a deeper understanding as to what may have been prime factors in shaping their lives. Okay, it's interesting to have a public dialog here about these specific 2 people... we loved their music, and sadly their parental upbringing was truly messed up. I really appreciate reading all these points of view and learning more from what each person is bringing to the table. One thing that I haven't seen mentioned though was the possibility that (sadly again) perhaps Karen suffered from BiPolar Disorder, and with all due respect, it is NOT an insult to speculate this point now that we understand more about this affliction. But whatever the reality was, Karen had a full plate of challenges in her brief life. And through it all, she gave us something that touched all of our hearts. Thanks to Karen (and Richard too of course) and Thanks to those of you sharing in this conversation.
I think Karen was gay but did not know that she was. Shaeds of Meredith Baxter. My sister was married for 20 years and then came out so IT DOES HAPPEN
According to some people, just about anyone who likes the Carpenters must be 'gay'. Well, I've loved the Carpenters' music for over 20 years, and I am very much a heterosexual! I don't care what other people think, and neither will Richard in all probability. Karen might have been a bit horrified by all this strange speculation.
I still can't see any evidence that either Karen or Richard were/are gay. We know that Karen was often stressed and unhappy about her body image and relationship with her mother, and that Richard had problems with a prescription drug and sometimes allegedly drove both himself and Karen too hard. Karen loved to play the drums, and Richard had maybe a slight lisp. That makes them gay?
There is simply no evidence that either Richard or Karen were ever involved in, hinted at, or sought a gay relationship. However, there's plenty of evidence that they enjoyed romantic and physical relationships with members of the opposite sex. It's to their credit that they were not promiscuous at a time when such a lifestyle was considered the norm for most young people.
Their music is romantic, sometimes witty, always warm and ultimately timeless. I think that they understood the human condition very well.
Karen's anorexia is well-known now, and all too sadly still experienced by many young women today. In Karen's case, I believe her weight issue revolved around a desperate need to control something in her life - and that happened to be her body. This insecurity often relates back to childhood and someone's formative years. The nightmare is when people in your adult life start trying to play the same role with you; often in subtle, indirect and sly ways.
I think that Karen felt trapped and without sufficient say in her life, and her frustration became centred around her weight. The tragedy is that she lost her life just when she was in fact getting slowly better. Her heart had been fatally weakened by her illness.
Rest easy, Karen.. and thank you and Richard for all that great music.
No,they were in no way gay! Richard has been married to the same woman now for nearly three decades and has sired several children and only dated women. Karen only had men in her romantic life and was wed also, albeit briefly, so if they were gay, they sure had a funny way of showing it. Also,I shake my head at some of the people who believe a person could be unaware they are gay? That is about as mentally retarded as saying that a person is unaware of their eye or skin colour!What gender that turns you on is just as patently obivous unless you are comatose. Let's remember the Carpenters for their wonderful music and stop all this foolish, baseless intrigue,conjecture, and innuendo about them!
Just because someone is maried that doesn't make them straight. John Travolta Rock Hudson Meredith Baxter Wanda Sykes Elton John and more.
I said nothing against gay people fool! All I stated was concrete facts which fly in the face of unsubstantiated drivel.
You don't need the name calling to make a point.
I don't really think Richard was gay, but I think Karen got the letter and but probably never opened it. Whether she was gay or straight, something tells me she was not the most sexually well-adjusted person if she is like a lot of other anorexics.
As for Matt's comment, I don't think Karen would have been "horrified" that someone wondered if she were gay! But what do I know....I think that she's so like the girl next door that it's hard for anyone to really see her as a sexual being. Anyway, there were rumors that she was gay in the 70's.
The letter was A. Assexual.
I am a bi sexual, just saying. But i dont see it as an issue if Karen or Richard were gay or lesbian? Who would we be to judge them for there choices? They are entitled to make there own desisions and we should have no say in it whatsoever! Karen was a tomboy...I know plenty of tomboys that are straight and always will be that way. But i also know lesbian that are a tomboy, Diffrent strokes for diffrent folks as they say...
I lived In Downey California where the carpenters lived. And would have numerous interactions with RC
I would see Richard in the decorating store with his wife on several Occasions. Their Parents were heavy drinkers which caused problems for Karen to which Agnes , Karens Mother ,was over the top running karens Life as I observed. Richard is a wonderful person and to speculate about his sexuality is really Stupid. Richard also has a great car collection. I will say as well as Bill OReilly on Fox , that Karen Was the best Female singer of all time . If you want to know the truth about her struggles get the Carpenter movie that was done about a decade ago and that will answer all.
I always wonder how the straight people who have commented here even FOUND this blog to make a comment... and Sir Hoagie sounds like an idiot. One can have a nice car collection and still be gay and still be married (to one's own cousin). I really don't care if Richard was gay, but I believe that he was. They both ping me off the charts. Also, one can be gay and still physically have sex with someone of the opposite gender. It doesn't mean we're necessarily into it. If you want kids, its a means to an end (there could have also been a turkey baster involved, IDK. Finally, I didn't know that Bill O'Reilly was a singer... or that Karen Carpenter was ever on the FOX network. You learn something new every day.
I have seen the film. It was a sad reminder of a singer we lost. However I think if the Karen was alive should would have a hard time. She and Richard would never live down performing for Richard Nixon.
A poster mentioned Richard's lisp. Finally! I've never seen a reference to it before and he definitely had a lisp. You can even hear it when he sings. And what about his little sister Karen having to protect him from the bullys when they were growing up in New Haven? Also, why would Karen be jealous to the point of sabotaging Richard's relationships? Why did they live with mom and dad so long? When they finally moved out, why would they buy a house just down the street ftom their parents and live together? Why was Agnes angry when Karen received attention; she was her child, too after all. Why was Hatold so passive? How did Agnes maintain such control over her grown children who were superstars? What was so awful that the family had to pay Tom Burris for his lifetime silence regarding Karen? How did Karen starve herself for so many years? How do they DO that? I know she was anorexic, but if I'm really hungry I get a little testy. Did it affect her personality? How could she manage the strength to walk around much less tour and perform when she was a walking skeleton. I have loved listening to Karen sing since the Carpenter's first records came out. If there is a public figure that I admire, I have an interest in their personal lives particularly if their lives are odd, or if things are not what they would have you believe. I would love to have met Karen. Not so much Richard. He always came off as cold and egotistical to me.
I always love hearing from people please keep the dialog going
I somehow came across this thread while randomly searching online for info about the carpenters. For what it's worth, i'm a 50 something housewife who was a teen when the carpenters were all the rage. As a teen, I was naive and haf NO clue about homosexuals....though i was certainly aware of the tomboy girls and 'delicate' boys in my classes. I have to admit, long before I EVER knew about transgender/gay/bi issues, i sonehow sensed that karen carpenter was not like other women....she seemed uncomfortable in her own skin....she seemed to my youthful eye like a boy wearing a girl's wig or something. I felt the same way about jodie foster and kristy macnichol, too....but being totally naive, I never realized WHY I thought that.....how tragic that both jodie and kristie have grown to adulthood and finally come out, but poor Karen Carpenter never lived to see how accepted she would have been.....
Sad thing is about Karen she might not of known
I think Richard may be Bi Sexual and Karen couldn't come to terms with her sexuality. She could have been ASexual as well. Meaning NO sexual attraction to either sex. Could the brother and sister duo ever have been intimate with each other?
Could there be family secrets of sexual abuse from their father or mother for that matter? People that knew the Carpenters have danced around the Carpenter family having a lot of "secrets" within the family. Of course we'll never know. I met both Richard and Karen in 1972 they were both lovely and professional and wildly talented. I wish someone could have somehow helped Karen before the point of no return but her poor body was so damaged from years of abuse and neglect. Hard to imagine someone who had the world had her feet had such a hard time loving and accepting herself. Herb Albert said that Karen never really knew that she "HAD IT" as far as her talent was concerned. Now that is tragic. One of the most outstanding female voices of ALL TIME and she could not accept that fact. It may have been too big of a burden to bear. But again only God knows the full truth at this point. I think Whitney Houston may have had the same type of inner demons that Karen faced. They both seemed uncomfortable in their own skin. God Bless them all and for sharing their gifts with us. I am forever grateful.
I would call Richard a bi-sexual in practice.
Now the real Richard Carpenter is 100% queer, guaranteed. But because he as a person is so overly concerned with what other people think and wishes to appear conservative & all-American in every possible way, he has settled for a hetero existence with a wife (his cousin!) and five children who are rarely seen but often referred to as "proof" that the man is not what we all really know him to be.
Well, as a gay woman raised with a very passive father and an authoritative mother, I can add a bit of experience to this conversation. When I was growing up, I was athletic and had a nice build but always felt awkward regarding my body. I dated guys but was terribly uncomfortable about it. I had no idea that I was gay. I just knew that I was not comfortable with guys. I really thought it was because of my extremely strict, religious background. As I got older, I began to realize that I was attracted to women. The first time I kissed a woman, it removed all doubt. I was a huge Carpenter fan growing up. (I am now 50). I saw Richard as somewhat effeminate, but not necessarily gay. All my gadar went off with Karen. It wasn't just my wishful thinking either. I really think that Karen probably knew she was attracted to women but struggled to attain the husband, children and the white picket fence. I think she used her career as an excuse not to get close to anyone. "Never in one place long enough," she would say. What a truly, lonely life she must have led. I don't think there was anyone she could trust with the truth. I also think that the Carpenter family knew EXACTLY why Karen had the issues that she had. They just didn't CARE and they didn't want any of their "family secrets" to come out. Even their own band members said how "strange" the family dynamic was. Richard has strived to protect their family image all these years. I just wonder what all he has been hiding. R.I.P KC. You are greatly missed by many.
WOW! I understand that you did not know Karen, personally. Despite that, you say that you know Karen was gay. Amazing! You say that even Karen didn't know, but you did, and apparently still do. WOW! You are truly gifted! Tell, were Adam and Eve gay, too?
Oh brother, who let the fundamentalist in? I agree with Bazboo, I too had a huge crush on her when I was 13 and got the vibe from her big time. Straight people do not understand the subtlety of gaydar. Sure, anyone can pick up on a really effeminate guy "being gay", but there is a whole spectrum of gay and I think for deep closet cases (like, potentially, Karen), it takes an actual gay person to pick up on the cues. Also, remember, many women come out much later in life and many times after a marriage (and children). It is not as uncommon as society believes, in fact, for women of Karen's generation, I think it was much more common than now. Glad that others see the "signs" too.
For all you people that can't think of anything better to do, I have some information for all of you. From personal experiance, I was there and it happend between us. Karen Carpenter WAS NOT GAY. Sorry to spoil your little fanticys. I'm 68 and was living in Cali at the time and we dated. As for Richard I have no idea, thats for him to know.
Now if you would all shut up and srop all your rumer spreading, life would be a lot eiser for every one.
Well said! There are far too many people on here who cannot distinguish between fact and fancy. To any reasonable person, there is NO empirical evidence to support the moronic assertion that eiter of these people were homosexuals. You can suspect all you want, but without defininitive, irrefutable proof you have NO CASE!
I agree with your thoughts, looking at the youtube vidios, having gay & lesbian family & friends & the mother of my daughter, I see the struggles our loved one go through living double lives, God Bless your lovely memory & songs dear Karen
I think people (fans), in their own messed up lives intentionally misinterpret the people they idolize into a famous fantasy of "who they really wanted them to be " in order to relate or live out their unrealized dreams, so they make up garbage that has absolutely NO FOUNDATION of truth.
It's like a bitter parent living their live through their children. They want to make them into someone or something they never were. Don't you think if these allegations were true, they would have been Hollywood fact by now? There was a spirit about The Carpenter's creative magic that just has no time for the type of messed up lives you people are trying to inflict on someone who is no longer here to defend herself and a brother, who loved his sister and mourned and continues to mourn her, as most of us do.....even after all these years. Don't fabricate what you know nothing about. Enjoy the legacy they left.....if you want to go online and ruin someone's life..do it to yourselves. If they weren't broke, don't try to fix them. Every family had their problems and yes, The Carpenter's were no exception but they were and will continue to be beautiful and amazing and unique. There will never be another duo like them. You don't achieve that by not putting hard work, gruelling schedules and a love of music into being a master of your craft! So politely keep your unfounded, legacy-destroying comments to yourself. You are darkness; they were light!
Scott Compton
Charlottetown, PE, Canada
I still think to this day Karen had no clue that she might of been gay. The thought most likely never crossed her mind.
Dusty Springfield called him a fag she and Karen knew he was
First of all, I don't how someone observing a celebrity would "know" that they are gay. You can suspect, and you may be correct, but you can't really know. My thought is that Karen and Richard had a narcissitic mother and an enabling father. Richard was the golden child and poor Karen was the scapegoat.
I'm right I know that I am right.
I have always known that but some people are morons and don't want to believe the truth they have nothing else better to do so they start telling lies and start bullshit rumors.
Forget those people doc you can't reason with idiots and I agree with you 100%
I believe that he does love women and only women his wife Mary is so freaking sexy and pritty and his daughters are so beautiful and his son Colin is a good looking young man like his dad.
I'm straight, and I'm offended by some people here you act as if it's an insult to say the Carpenters might be Gay. Being Gay is not evil, it's not an insult. And I agree with the people who commented that their "Gaydar" picked up on it, too. So did mine ! Yes you CAN tell if someone's Gay or bi just by observing. Or at least you will highly suspect it, and likely it will turn out to be true. You'd need to have a little bit of perception and a few brain cells though -
I believe both siblings were Gay / bisexual. Richard can't totally hide it. Karen too, seemed obviously Gay to me. Their astrology shows it as well. I'd think they were Gay even if I hadn't seen their astrology.
In the astrology, Karen has a minor hard aspect from Uranus to her Moon. Richard's Moon is actually conjunct Uranus.Hard aspects between the Moon and Uranus are indications of bisexuality ,or being totally Gay. However this doesn't mean the person will necessarily, flamboyantly live that lifestyle. They may even ignore the bisexual/Gay side of their own nature, {at least for a while}. Also,some people just aren't very sexual, and "asexual" is possibly what Karen was,{with a strong possibility of leaning towards being bi or Gay as well}.
The Carpenters had a conservative upbringing,remained close to their parents and had an image of being conservative. So - I wouldn't be surprised if they feared what their fans might think. Which is too bad,since many of their fans are probably Gay too. It wouldn't have been so bad if they'd "come out" {but that's just my opinion}.
Plenty of Gay/bisexual men marry and have children. For instance, Liza Minnelli's father was Gay/bisexual. Also, something I learned from having bisexual friends and also from studying the history of Hollywood stars... often bisexuals marry each other. And I had two close friends,{one male, the other was female}, both bisexual and they married each other. Happens all the time. It's possible that Richard Carpenter married a bisexual too, or that he found a straight woman who loves him for who he is, and lets him do whatever he wants. No one knows,though.
So well & truthfully put. đŸ’œ
What a sedated suburban numbnut response. Late. Give up that xannie bar for once.... Just once. .
Agreed!!! People always react as if it is insultung to question... How stjpid as this is how the human mind works and it is not insulting to be free to be yourself.
Beautiful. To the point. đŸ’œ
Agreed!!! People always react as if it is insultung to question... How stjpid as this is how the human mind works and it is not insulting to be free to be yourself.
If you want to know the truth about the Carpenter's we should seek out people that would know. From their band members to Herb Albert and Dionne Warwick
I'm watching a Carpenters documentary at this moment which got me to ask Google if they were gay. He may not be...though I'm skeptical...she clearly was. Ergo the eating disorder.
That's too logical! :)
There was something very strange about that situation. Whether it was because they were raised in a very nerdy, old fashioned home or there was sexual tension between the two of them, I don't know. I always just assumed he was gay but then I find out he has been married for 30 years and has 6 kids! But then it turns out he married his first cousin. This was okay technically because she was adopted so there is no genetic issue but it still seems a bit odd. I never even considered that she might be gay but I just noticed her ugly clothes. All of her "skirts" are actually very baggy pants or culottes (they look like skirts but are sewed together with a crotch) and she wears boots to cover her legs. When you combine that with a failed marriage and anorexia and the drums and her deep voice it is certainly a possibility and given her parents and the times, how could she possible tell anyone other than maybe Richard.
Whoever said "I was there" maybe the bad sexual experience made her hate sex or just having sex with you
Oshara, thx for sharing. I am a huge Carpenter fan. As Karen passed (Friday) I was going through a miscarriage that weekend (Sunday). After which I ended up divorcing because I finally admitted I was gay. As many have said - being married proves nothing. I have questioned Karen's inner termoil for years. It's normal when you cared for someone and society learns from history. She definitely was dealing with issues she held within. Whatever the case, when someone DENIES the opportunity to heal by truly opening up to someone they trust, the pain/stress/confusion/depression will come out another way...be it addiction or health issues. Seeking help for ANY issue should never be seen as weak. 40 yrs later, hopefully someone with Karen's issues (whatever they were) would now be comfortable living their truth. RIP Karen! You still shine brightly in many many hearts!
Guess how I got here? By typing "Karen Carpenter Lesbian" into Google! I just had to know if anyone else had the same thought. Glad to know I'm not alone.
As with Whitney Houston, Karen came into the music industry a very different person than she left it. If you look at her manner of dress, speech & body language in the early '70s vs. the early '80s it's quite striking. She said herself she had to be coached on how to be feminine. I think Karen was too controlled & over-managed both by her conservative family & record label which lead to her depression & eating disorder. I think if she'd been born 10 years later she'd still be with us, which breaks my heart. I'm gay myself so I like to think I can pick up on the subtle cues...which don't just include things like playing softball & being a drummer, lol.
Remember when Portia DeRossi had an eating disorder before coming out of the closet? She cited her fake life as being the main cause of it & was cured after coming out. Not saying that would've cured Karen but living inauthentically is soul-crushing work, never mind being married to a man who calls you names, lies & steals from you. And working in a male-dominated industry where your only solo effort is shot down before seeing the light of day had to hurt.
I think Karen DID want children more than anything in the world, as many gay people do. Maybe she even wanted a typical hetero family. Again, many conservative gay people want these things. But at the end of the day you can't change who you are. That fact combined with the pressures of dealing with music critics, constant touring, a dysfunctional family dynamic & her unrealistically high standards destroyed her.
I'll never buy that she was this asexual little woman-child who never developed a sexuality as she's been portrayed. That's crap. She only clung to that image because it was more comfortable than being who she really was: an out gay woman before it was socially acceptable.
As for Richard, who knows? I haven't looked too deeply into his life but he doesn't necessarily set my gaydar buzzing.
they could have been both gay and incestual, they both ping to hi hell gay...
I hope ryan murphy does a series like he did on Versace, about this wildly dysfunctional family...its made for him...
I CONSIDER HER ONE OF THE ALLTIME GREAT SINGERS WE EVER HAD
HAD SHE ESCAPED RICHARD SHE MAY HAVE GONE EVEN FARTHER....
Why does it matter now?
It's 2019 and many parts of this country people still hate gay people. Coming out is still difficult in "Red Sates" but only a little easier in Blue States.
Looking back..and in todays 'light'..These two siblings..both Show great signs that they were both gay "orientiert '..
The Times they were living and of course the very difficult homophopic abd even still 'prude' world they were experiancing in the US..
Just to say..getting married and having a family ..has absolutely nothing to do with your 'true' sexuality..
Absolutely agree!
I've heard that at best Richard was Bi, he had a brief affair with a guy early on in his career and then focused on women after that. A test period if you will. Of course this was all under the radar of their parents. I don't think Karen ever acted on any Lady Pond feelings. Plus if her mother found out. Karen would have Hell to pay. Agnes kept an extremely tight reign on both her children. But mama favored Richard BIG TIME. Everything was to support RICHARD and his artistry. Ironic that Karen became the full out STAR of the Carpenters. While Richard was content to linger in the background and pull all the strings. But he would get miffed if Karen received too much attention. I think that's one reason Karen lost all that weight. She was trying to disappear so that people would focus more on Richard's talents and not hers. Well Karen succeeded in her quest. Agnes wanted HER SON front and center. Well she got her wish, at the cost of her beautiful, wildly talented daughter. We so miss you Karen..
They aren't gay you guys! they were gender inverted by their satanic parents, it's part of their religion. Karen was a man. That's why the heavy bangs, long dresses and chin implant. Open your eyes and look closer people. This is why she didn't want to come out from behind the drum, they hid her. Don't get me wrong I loved her and it wasn't her fault. It was done to her from birth like thousands of other celebrities.
To crankyoldchristian. Your comment is the biggest crock of shit I have ever heard. You're a cranky old Christian for sure đŸ¤£đŸ¤£đŸ¤£đŸ¤£đŸ¤£
I'm more inclined to think there was potentially sexual, and absolutely emotional, abuse from her brother rather than either of them being gay.... who marries their first cousin any more? Genetic connection or not, the taboo is there. As for the anorexia, I don't think you need to look any further than the controlling family and taking being "chubby" very much to heart. Add fame, gruelling work commitments, the put-downs about her solo album and then an abusive marriage (no wonder it was short - I'd have got the hell out of it too).... it's no wonder the anorexia damaged her to death.
That is a ridiculous assumption to make. And really unfair and mean actually.
I have read every book on her and watched hundreds of videos and documentaries on her. Hundreds of hours and there was only one mention as a joke. That groupie ButterCup who had been with many rock stars and wished to join Richard and the joke was what about Karen too. It never happened and was simply a joke amongst her management team. Her very best friends ALL said she was constantly talking about meeting the right guy and she really wanted true love. Multiple friends all started this. Itchy Ramone, Olivia Newton John, Frenda and manager lawer and record executives all had numerous talkes about her dating and meeting the right man for her. She did date actually quite a few men. Most all adored her. She dated some musicians, an Osmond, a record executive and, really nice guy and she really liked a British record manager that they both loved eachother but the record company freaked out and threatened to fire her new boyfriend if they didn't immediately end it. The man she married seemed to be exactly who she wanted. Apparently successful, handsome and with some confidence. But he was a fake and especially because real estate was crashing in California. He went through all her cash. It appears he was not confident but a narcissist and his behavior made her problems much worse.
Come on she didn't even drink or do drugs. She was squeaky clean and her lifes unexpected ambition was to receive recognition and love from her family especially her mother. She was lovingly controlled or a nicer word protected. There is NO doubt her family loved her. They were over protective because they loved her. She was controlled and protected by management and tour and record executives. Were they mean. I don't think so. They loved her. Every interview and I've seen them all. They all loved her and tried to protect her. She felt trapped like a child and wanted to escape but she to loved them and appreciates them at the same time. During her therapy in New York they discovered. She needed to hear directly from her family she was loved. Her mom did lover they all did but she had a real hard time voicing it almost refusing to say Karen I love you and am proud of you. She tried to simply show with mothering deeds of help and constructive criticism. She wished to be treated like an adult and make decisions. Big decisions. During her divorce which devastated her she took control and made solo album that she was very proud of. She finally did her own thing. But Richard and her record company pulled the plug on it. I think it was really good they didn't but it was her last hope to be free and she got rejected by the people she loved and respected the most. They should have let that album come out. If it was a hit great. But I think they were losing Karen if she was a solo success. If it flopped all the better. She lived she learned and tried and then she would appreciate Richard even more. Ther were several straws that were broke. This last straw took the breath out of her soul. Karen was an enigma of talent and intelligence but she was quite sensitive. She really wanted to please everyone and really worked to exhaustion as did Richard. She was really hard on herself. But it was because she cares so very much about her music and her friends and family. They needed to shower her on love using words and hugs not protect and push her. The best singer ever, this superstar, millionaire I don't feel loved herself. She needed someone to live her deeply. Everyone did especially Richard but they needed to show it with deep hugs and praise. She felt so bad about herself it was just a tragedy which far surpasses Romeo on Juliet. So no she wasn't a lesbian. Just a daughter waiting to be loved
That's an incredibly ignorant statement. Please see my previous reply on this post.
First NOTHING was actually that weird about the cousin thing all because if you had a brain you would have done 8 seconds or research and realized that the woman he married genetically WAS NOT a cousin. She was adopted or brought in through marriage and she actually worked with Richard and Karen for years. So no don't think of it like that.
Rumors are just that and they are crap. Olivia was a very caring good friend to her and to jump to that conclusion is just wrong. Karen was traumatized by this all and thank god she had some good friends. Olivia, Itchi, Frenda etc. And her lawyer and manger were both like second dads.
Your thought is incorrect she dated men quite a few but she was always looking for Mr. RIGHT. but you made some nice follow up thoughts. Her solo album was excellent.
Thank you glitter. Finally someone with a brain.
How did you idiots even find this page unless you did an internet search for "Karen Carpenter lesbian"? It must have crossed your mind that she might be or you would have never found this page! Also, is is OK if she was a lesbian and it's OK if she wasn't. It is not out of line to consider her private sexuality might have been a contributing cause to her illness. And many lesbians dated men (including me) when they were figuring themselves out, so the fact that she dated a lot of men says nothing, really, and she was forced into that marriage with Tom. If you haven't read Little Girl Blue by Randy Schmidt, you really should. The book also confirms that Richard's wife, is indeed a blood relative first cousin (which is not illegal in 13 states, including California). Is it a choice a lot of people would make? No, but it is legal, so quit trying to convince people she wasn't a blood relative.
I think it more likely that Karen Carpenter was MTF transgender, if you look closely at her anatomy (shoulder width and proportion to hips, hand size, neck length chin...) and add in her "tomboy interests", contralto vocal and the saturation of covert transgenders in the entertainment industry, this is quite a persuasive theory.
Patsy Kelly, that's ridiculous. I found this page by doing a search on "Karen Carpenter" and another key word that had nothing to do with lesbian, gay or homosexual. Lesbian is not the only word on this page besides "Karen Carpenter" which will trigger its inclusion in Google results.
Unknown, the reason Karen wore culottes and split skirts was because they gave her the freedom of movement needed for drumming while still maintaining her modesty.
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